Dave Ramsey, meet Joel Osteen
Son,
We have talked several times about Dave Ramsey, monetary guru of Christianity. I have been wandering around the Dave Ramsey Web site and I see a great deal of information on debt management, how to get out of debt, and how to stay out of debt. This man is important in America today. I called him the ‘monetary guru of Christianity’ because he offers ideas like setting up a financial counseling ministry at your church. There is another Christian capitalist gun slinger in town, his name is Joel Osteen.
While Ramsey’s focus is on money management in the context of Christianity, Osteen’s focus is on Christianity in the context of money management. Ramsey is an important person in the world of John Doe finances, stressing the need to get out of debt – and offering specific strategies to help with that endeavor.
Joel Osteen looks at the other side of finance – that of wealth and riches. Osteen is first a minister, a preacher, an evangelist. He has focused his message on the spiritual health of abundance, as noted here:
“God desires that you be so blessed that you can turn around and be a blessing everywhere you go! He wants you to have so much peace, so much joy, so much victory that when other people get around you it spills over onto them! In the book of Psalms, David said, “My cup runs over.” He was overflowing with the anointing—the tangible, effective power of God. Too many people today have a barely-get-by-mentality. They settle for thoughts like, “I can barely pay my bills…I have an okay job…I have an okay marriage.” But Jesus came so we can live an abundant life! That means an abundance of joy, an abundance of peace, an abundance of health, an abundance of finances.” From his book “Living the Abundant Life.”
These are interesting men in an interesting time. They are each valuable in our society. Each of their messages can be taken to extremes.
What I know about these men is limited to what is available on their Web sites. I would be interested to hear from people who actually practice some of Ramsey and Osteen’s philosophies.
Dad
Comment by Bill on 17 October 2007:
I remember hearing about Joel Osteen when his father, John Osteen, was senior pastor of Lakewood Church. While living in Houston, I always remember them being leaders in the community. Unfortunately, I never had the privledge of being in the congregation at Lakewood.
Dave’s focus is on much more than just ‘money management in the context of Christianity’ his focus is on finanacial peace. Let me say that again and this time let it sink in…Financial Peace. Dave approaches debt the same way the bible does. Proverbs 22:7 “The borrower is slave to the lender” Until you release yourself from being an indentured servant of Citibank, Discover, Countrywide, Wells Fargo or others you will never know financial peace.
Dave has a great way of saying it in his Total Money Makeover LIVE Event. “You see, I don’t have a car payment. I don’t have a house payment,” he said to a now very quiet auidence. “… or a student loan payment or a MasterCard payment You know what you can do if you don’t have any payments? Do you know how fast you can build wealth if you don’t have any payments?” Imagine how much you could GIVE…if you didn’t have any payments?
What if you could make a donation in the amount that WAS your house payment? Woudldn’t that be cool? What if you could pay for sombody’s shopping cart full of groceries as they were coming out of the store. You think they would remember you the rest of their life?
When I read, “God desires that you be so blessed that you can turn around and be a blessing everywhere you go! He wants you to have so much peace, so much joy, so much victory that when other people get around you it spills over onto them!” that is the kind blessings I imagine.
For me, personally, being debt free except the house I can honestly say I enjoy going to the mailbox. I enjoy talking about money with my wife. We hope to have our house paid off in the next decade then we can really begin to build wealth and give.
Comment by Ohg Rea Tone on 17 October 2007:
Bill,
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. Everything we can do to appreciate the happiness that comes with being debt free is a blessing to ourselves, our community, and our country – not to mention our church.
How do we get our congress and president to pay attention?
Ohg
Comment by Jerry on 17 October 2007:
Don’t think Joel Osteen is all about money? Look at his web page (http://www.joelosteen.cc). The proof is in the pudding.
Comment by Ohg Rea Tone on 17 October 2007:
Jerry,
Your point it taken. Marketing is skill that Joel Osteen has mastered. But is there real value? Is his ministry based on making money or on Christian principles? Are these principles mutually exclusive?
Ohg
Comment by bryan on 17 October 2007:
If you want to make money, don’t try to make Fords or Chryslers. just talk about Jesus and sit back and wait. It will come. Oh yes, It will come.
Comment by cindylauper on 21 October 2007:
Don’t be fooled about Joel Osteen. He’s a charlatan, not an evangelist. He looks and sounds sincere, but he knows exactly what he’s doing.
Comment by Truth be Told on 23 October 2007:
People, don’t be fooled. Just like with Dave. he just grins at how many people he can mess over. All the smoke-screen shit works. as long as Dave Ramsey keeps collecting interest on his millions– that’s all that matters. The Glossy coating shines through.
Comment by Bill on 25 October 2007:
Well, I have seen Dave when there was no glossy coating or smoke screen. On this evening he was tired, jet lagged and hoarse. It was obvious that he had a lot to do before his head was ever going to hit the pillow. But the one thing he did was EXACTLY what he said he was going to do. “I’m going to come around and talk to each one of you,” he said.
Story time:
There were 8 banquet tables in the room and there was about 10 people at each table. He started at the first table and sat with them for about 20 minutes. I’m sitting at the 7th table thinking he’ll never make it around as there is only about an hour. By about the 6th table his staff was getting fidgety as he was scheduled to go on stage. Not only did he make it around to my table, he made it around to each and every table that night. He did was EXACTLY what he said he was going to do.
Dave doesn’t need my defense. I just thought I would let MY ‘truth be told’. If I come across as a Dave Ramsey ‘lemming’ as some other sites call it…I could really care less.
My point is Dave Ramsey demonstrated amazing integrity that evening. And, if he is ‘collecing interest on his million’ then so what? From what I saw, he’s earned every bit of it. I am on track to be doing the same when I’m his age.
Ohg,
The way to get our congress and president to pay attention is it has to start with ‘We the People of the United States.’ Only then can we ‘secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.’
Comment by bryan on 25 October 2007:
Bill,
I am a Dave supporter, and I think he does what he does well and does a great service to the financial industry. I would like to see more in his message about social responsibility, feeding the poor and empowering the oppressed, to balance more fully his message of “it’s about building piles and piles of cash.” (from his show intro).
I don’t believe that all that matters to Dave is collecting interest, he truly does care about people.
Thanks for the comments, you add great value to this site.
Comment by JulieRK on 7 November 2007:
I love and get great benefit from both Joel and Dave…two men that God is using in great ways to help people become better in every area of their life.
JRK
Comment by joshuaC on 28 May 2008:
I am following Dave Ramsey plan and for teh first time I have an emergency plan, active savings account and have elminayed 25% of my outstanding debt. It is working as he states it will.
Joel Osteen has been a great mentor in my life and is doing what God has ked him to do. The only one complaing are ministers who own congregation are shrinking do to old doctrines that no longer make sense.
Comment by jeff on 14 May 2011:
ISIAIh 41 BRING forth your IDOLS did they PREACH to you see they can’t speak they can’t DO ANYTHING all they do is cause confusion. spalms 115 and spalms 135 thier IDOLS are FALSE cant speak can’t hear cant smell and those that make them shall become like them. Jeremiah 10 they nail their IDOL down like a scarecrow it can’t move can’…t speak can’t move must be carried these are nothing but the WORK of CON men.john 10 jesus christ sais his sheep hear his voice and another voice thy will not follow and if another person tries to preach to them they WILL FLEE from him. jeremiah 5 the priests bear rule on their own authority what will you do when your judged my word is not inside them. Now here is the kicker john 5 son of man voice goes back in time mathew 16 jesus christ claims to be the son of man.1 cor2 mind of CHRIST preached internally and john 16 sais the spirit of truth comes in the future. Ezekiel 13 lying prophets of ISRAEL my word is not inside them saying god sais god sais god sais wrote hoping mankind would CONFIRM their WORDS. all of this is EASILY verifiable.