Picking on Catholicism
During my quest of becoming a better disciple of Christ, I thought it only fair to try and understand some other beliefs. I understand that the bible can be left open to interpretation to whom ever reads it. And to some degree must be evaluated to different times. But evaluation should not lead to amendments.
Anyone who has ever heard of the Bible knows it has two sections, the Old and New Testaments. Some religions follow some Old Testament rules such as ‘an eye for and eye’ and having 10 wives. I guess they never made it to the second part of the bible called the New Testament. Or the men read the second section and say, heck no I need all my wives and we’ll just tell them they need us to get salvation. Everything one should need for salvation is in the Bible. There is no need to add rules or follow only the ones you like.
So if the Bible is all the word we need, why does the Roman Catholic Church add additional laws on the verge of occultism? Some rules and doctrines that are hard to grasp are their beliefs that the Pope is above scripture and is infallible along with some of his minions. They hold themselves in higher order than Chri
st in that, they may forgive you of your sins. In 1 Tim 2:5 it says there is only one mediator between God and man, Jesus. They do more praying to Mary and Saints than they do the son of God. Sounds like a modern day Pharisees to me.
Speaking of Pharisees, we read how they adorned themselves with fine robes jewels and head wear. Again in the first book of Timothy is speaks of being free from the love of money and sordid gain. I’ve yet to see any one in the Dioceses or even the Pope wearing a 50 dollar outfit, traveling in their Pacer.
Wait…. There’s more. When they have Mass and take communion they actually believe they are drinking the blood of Christ, not a symbol of it. But poor us, if we do not belong to the Catholic Church we are all going to hell. Even if you truly believe in the salvation of Jesus Christ and have been baptized, you are still doomed.
Roman Catholics also baptize infants, believing they are getting rid of original sin, another slap in the face of God. How can one be baptized if they have no idea what it means? My two older children were baptized on their own accord, but had to do several weeks of classes and had to understand what baptism was about. If they failed to get it or failed to believe in the salvation of Jesus, then they just spent several weeks reading and learning for nothing.
Martin Luther almost got it right, but still held some traditions of the Catholic Church. However, it seems hard to believe that some unknown tribe in the middle of some unknown jungle that has never heard of Christianity is going to hell because they didn’t attend Mass. When Jesus comes back, the Catholics will probably persecute him because according to them no one on earth is above the Pope.
Comment by Ohg Rea Tone on 28 March 2009:
Whoooeeee! Sounds like the KKK in 1920. Some sprinkle and some dunk – who cares? Some believe in transconfiguration (transforming wine to blood), some don’t, who cares?
Almost all Christian churches practice praying for others. And many ask others to pray on their behalf. If we all believe that people are in heaven – then it seems reasonable that we might ask those who have gone before us to put in a good word with God on our behalf. If one believes such things.
And as far as adding or taking away from the Bible – the very Bible that American Christians study was provided by the Catholic Church. There would be no King James Bible without Catholicism.
https://thefiresidepost.com/2007/12/16/catholics-saved-christianity/
The assault on Catholicism by American theologists over the past three centuries is common. Rather than find value in a positive ideology – simply measure one’s own faith against a flawed understanding of Catholicism – that is the root of the Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, and Jehovah Witnesses. Hating Catholics and Jews is nothing new.
https://thefiresidepost.com/2007/10/10/mormons-the-beginning-theology/
The Christian Art of the Renaissance was inspired by Catholicism.
https://thefiresidepost.com/2008/12/04/a-gay-jesus-and-catholic-art/
The idea of original sin goes back a long way – and inspires many to consider the meaning in the world of today.
https://thefiresidepost.com/2008/10/25/thoughts-on-original-sin/
And the idea that only through a specific church can one be saved is not unique to the Catholics – if they believe it at all. After Vatican II (1962 – 1965)the Roman Catholic Church accepted the sacraments of other churches, recognizing baptism and marriage in a protestant church as valid sacraments of God.
I would certainly be interested in any Christian Church that could get the theology right every time. I have been to many churches and have not seen the ‘true’ church yet. (By the way, the minister at the Word of Life Church in my home town (I think they are Baptist or something) wears two thousand dollar suits for his televised sermons.)
There is no true Church of Jesus Christ – If he should happen to come again, I doubt that he is going to be pleased with all of our fighting amongst each other.
Comment by Cole James on 28 March 2009:
Ohg, you are a funny guy. Now I never said I hated Catholics as you imply. I just noted that in order for me to become a better disciple, I should learn about more than one religion. Just because I read what they beleive does not mean I have to buy into it. You are very knowlegable on theology and after reading your many posts outlined above, I learned even more.
If the early Roman Catholic Church put the Bible together then why would they not follow it. Why are they the only ones who can amend it. If there are Saints and priests, why do we need Jesus? I mean if a priest can forgive you of your sins, who needs Christ. Enlighten me.
Comment by Timothy on 28 March 2009:
Greetings! Saw your post in Google Blogsearch and came to read.
>”So if the Bible is all the word we need, why does the Roman Catholic Church add additional laws on the verge of occultism?”
Where does Jesus or an apostle teach that the bible is all the word we need. Why didn’t Jesus leave the bible behind? Christianity got along fine without the New Testament for many decades, did it not? What was the sole authority after Jeus ascension and before the NT was written? The Old Testament?
Regarding the Catholic Church and its laws, according to scripture is not a church able to discpline its members? This seems a case of discipline for me, but not for thee.
>”They hold themselves in higher order than Christ in that, they may forgive you of your sins.”
Um. no, they don’t hold themselves higher than Christ. Having Christ’s authority to forgive sins (John 20:21-23) neither renders one higher or even equal to God, but merely an authorized creation.
>” In 1 Tim 2:5 it says there is only one mediator between God and man, Jesus.”
Catholics believe 1 Tim 2:5 fully 100%.
>”They do more praying to Mary and Saints than they do the son of God.”
You quantified this how? Let’s agree this is hyperbole.
>”There’s more. When they have Mass and take communion they actually believe they are drinking the blood of Christ, not a symbol of it.”
Catholics take the bible at its word. Cathlics read Mathew 26:26 and find Jesus saying “This IS my body”. Not symbolizes, but is. Catholics accept this in light of Isaiah 55:11 and Genesis 1. When Jesus, God incarnate, held bread in His hands and the voice of God went forth saying “This IS my body”, bounced off the bread and returned to God’s ears, what according to Isaiah 55:11 and Genesis 1 occured? Nothing? Nothing doesn’t seem biblical.
Catholics don’t limit God and find God fully capable of continuing to turn bread and wine into God’s body and blood. Particularly in light of the physical evidence from Lanciano and other similar events.
That said, Catholics will fully agree with you that your communion is indeed only symblic. No arguement there. Its obvious from your communion elements and how those elements are handled.
>”But poor us, if we do not belong to the Catholic Church we are all going to hell.”
Catholics neither believe nor teach that myth.
>”Even if you truly believe in the salvation of Jesus Christ and have been baptized, you are still doomed.”
Catholics neither believe nor teach that myth either.
>”Roman Catholics also baptize infants, believing they are getting rid of original sin, another slap in the face of God. How can one be baptized if they have no idea what it means?”
Um, where in scripture does it ever say that one must know what baptism means in order to be baptized? That seems a tradition of man.
Also, where in scripture does it instuct us on when and how children of baptised believers are to enter into the Christian faith?
>”However, it seems hard to believe that some unknown tribe in the middle of some unknown jungle that has never heard of Christianity is going to hell because they didn’t attend Mass.”
Catholics neither believe nor teach that. Catholics do teach that these people may be saved, and if so, are saved by God’s freely given grace and Jesus is somehow involved in their salvation in an unkown manner. The bible says as much.
>”When Jesus comes back, the Catholics will probably persecute him because according to them no one on earth is above the Pope.”
Hyperbole and myth. Well done!
BTW, all the true beliefs that you mentioned are also held by the other 22 Catholic Churchs (Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem, etc.)(Rome is not the only Catholic Church, just the largest.) and the many Orthodox Churches, thus the majority of Christianity. If one’s personal beliefs do not align with the bulk of Christianity, should one not seek to discover why or why not?
God bless… +Timothy
Comment by Ohg Rea Tone on 28 March 2009:
Martin Luther was the first to publicly acknowledge the “Priesthood of Believers” – meaning that anyone who believed in God could have a personal relationship with God – and not have to go through an intermediary like a Priest. That was in 1519, one of 95 theological issues Luther had with the Catholic Church.
In 1555 the Catholic Church held their first Vatican Council. Many of the upper ranks of the Catholic Church (Cardinals and Archbishops) had been arguing for change. Most of Luther’s complaints were rectified in 1555. Luther was different only in that he went public – the others thought the Catholic Church should be reformed from within. Once Luther let the cat out of the bag, the Church could not put it back in. Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall.
Had Luther been more patient we might all be Catholics yet today. Who knows? There are many folks today in the upper ranks of the Catholic Church who argue for more reform – but they keep their issues within the church. For instance, some think that Priests should be allowed to marry – something I agree with.
The term ‘catholic’ with a small ‘c’ means universal. The idea was that there would only be one Church of Jesus. Much like in Islam, the church has been divided into factions. Each faction believes they promote the true message of God.
A good place to get an overview of the Bible, in a non biased academic method, is in Cliff Notes. There are Cliff Notes for both the Old Testament and the New Testament. The Cliff notes do not promote any particular faith – and some do not like them because of that. But the Cliff Notes do offer a summary and context to better understand.
Faith is a slipper slope. After all, if you can believe in a virgin birth, death and bodily resurrection – then what are the limits? Some people play with venomous snakes and justify the ritual with New Testament Scripture. Some think they must test their faith. I personally think that life is testing enough without having to pick up a snake. There three things every person of faith must do to keep their sanity. 1) Read the literature (bible) yourself – do not depend on someone else’s interpretation. 2) Find a healthy group of people to congregate with – you can test your understanding with them. If people sound nutty – they probably are. and 3) Never give up your powers of reason. God gave you a brain for a reason.
These things have been debated for literally thousands of years, by people much smarter than us – and the smart folks do not all agree.
So here is my simple philosophy interpretation of the laws of the Bible. Leviticus is the first book of God’s Laws. Many more followed. Jesus came along and he said, “You have heard an eye-for-an-eye, but I say to you turn the other cheek.” He confused everyone. Peter asked Jesus, “There are many laws, which are the most important?”
Jesus answered, “There are two: Love you God with all your heart strength soul and mind, and Love your neighbor as yourself.”
State Constitutions are subordinate to the United State Constitution. In that same way, everything in the Bible is subordinate to the two laws that Jesus said are most important. If a law in Leviticus contradicts either of the top two – then it is rendered invalid.
If a preacher or Priest or Minister contradicts the top two laws, then he/she has crossed the line of truth.
Church is a good place to test true faith, true love of our fellow man. Every church has some loonies hanging around in the dark corners, waiting to ambush faithful Christians.
Be careful on the slippery slope.
Comment by Cole James on 28 March 2009:
Timothy, thanks for reading. I enjoyed reading your response. I speculate you are Catholic. You have done a good job of debunking some myths. I’ve learned a little from your response.
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Comment by Cole James on 29 March 2009:
I looked up this Word of Life Church you mention. He is a modern day Tammy Faye Baker. A congregation of over 4000. I wonder if he would lay aside all his monies, expensive items and leave his million sqft building as Mathew did when Jesus said, “follow me”.